Hey Joel, did you mean to say those of us who can't daydream aren't human? That would explain a few things lol.
Fantastic explanation of how daydreaming works that got me thinking about the implications that lack of daydreaming would have on the psychological development of kids.
When I first told a close friend I had Aphantasia the first thing she said was "lucky you, no daydreams to distract you"
The inability to visualize future or alternate scenarios definitely feels like something that has had an impact on my way of being and how I think about the future. It feels like one of the reasons I learned to be an excellent problem solver and quickly adapt to new environments. Everything is a new "problem" all the time when you live in the moment, don't remember much and can't imagine what's coming.
Thanks so much for this article Joel. I have multisensory aphantasia and SDAM, and I don't have the types of daydreaming experiences you describe. I do sometimes get lost in a train of deep thought, but my experience is always very much grounded in the here and now. Is there any research on the default mode network in people with aphantasia?
Also, I'm genuinely fascinating to read about how much time people can spend daydreaming. While it might be nice to escape to another imaginary world, I often wonder how visualisers concentrate or get anything done!
That opening description of a daydream is 100% alien to me. Aphantasia, SDAM, inattentive ADHD, yes, daydreaming like that no. Here is me describing what passes for a daydream to me:
On a beautiful afternoon we were sitting in our dusty classroom, parsing and translating Latin prose, the windows all wide open, while out in the world birdsong threaded thin and distant in the drifting African air.
Goodwin was in the hot seat.
“In is sibi legationem ad civitates suscepit,” he said, “is sibi refers to the verb suscepit, making it reflexive, taking to himself the authority, so I think the translation might be ‘he undertook to be ambassador to the states’, sir.”
“Thank you Goodwin, very good,” said Mr Slade, unless it was some other master. “Sharman?”
There was no reply. I was thinking how amazingly and unnaturally lavender the jacaranda flowers looked on the trees just outside the window, and how they layered the thin kikuyu grass on the bank of Brooklands with such an improbable glowing carpet.
“Sharman, are we disturbing you?”
“Oh, sorry, sir, yes, sir?”
“Glad to have you back with us, Sharman. Continue.”
“… um, sorry, sir, where are we, sir?”
“Please pay attention, Sharman, the rest of us are back here on Earth exploring the writings of Caesar. Goodwin has just translated is sibi legationem ad civitates suscepit, please go on.”
“… er… um… sorry, sir, which line is that on, sir, please?”
“Line 13, Sharman, and please stop saying sorry, because although you are indeed a sorry specimen, I do not for one minute think you are sorry. So stop saying sorry, you scatterbrained dunce.”
A lesser master would have hurled something at my head, but Mr Slade (if it were he) was a remarkably civil and patient man.
“Thank you, sir, line 13, sir. Yes sir. … um.”
Mr Slade and the class waited, breath bated. They knew what was coming.
There was no way out for the squirrels in my head. But the squirrels and I could perhaps collectively stall for time.
“Please, sir, which page, sir? Sorry, sir.”
A sigh from the class, a collective letting out of breath. Sharman was in for it now.
“Sharman, you are exasperating. Come and see me after class. Page 8, boy. Page 8. Line 13. Is sibi legationem ad civitates suscepit. Continue.”
“…”
“… excuse me, sir, may I borrow the book, please sir, I think I must have forgotten mine, sir.”
In this, in case you missed it, my "daydream" was my musing about Jacaranda flowers.
Daydreaming? I can't even begin to imagine what it's like. I have "hyper" Aphantasia. However, I'm always busy thinking about things rationally. The rights and wrongs and ways to fix it.
When I watch SpaceX for example and their innovative ideas my mind would automatically start to think how to even better it and so forth. The problem is that I can never switch of from thinking, my mind is at it like forever.
Even when it's time to go to sleep my minds busy figuring things out, anything and everything.
I can however direct my thoughts onto a specific subject and then get stuck on that specific thought. I'm also always busy doing something like mowing the lawn or fixing something trying to think about something else when a specific train of thought becomes too overwhelming trying to drive me crazy.
I just woke up at 5 am, read this article and already my minds at it. I'm turning 69 in 2 weeks and cannot imagine what it must feel like to be empty minded.
The last 35 to 40 years most of my thoughts were directed at trying to solve the unsolved mysteries of the human mind.
I've watched thousands of videos of famous scientists, philosophers, neurologists, psychologists and so forth over all these years. Not even to mention how much more time my mind has been at work trying to make sense of it all, trying to solve the puzzle.
Believe me when I say I eventually did solve it as an outside observer. What saddens or puzzles me the most is seeing how so many professionals have solved or rather holds only bits and pieces of the puzzle, most even unaware of the other pieces out there that exists.
When I say I finally figured out how our minds operate I mean it. Not only that, even how the universe operates. That's what my minds been at for the last 35 to 40 years gradually figuring it out, day in and day out. The amazing thing is over the years I saw how discoveries and new breakthroughs has been made only to confirm what I already knew years and sometimes even decades ahead. That's a lot of time my mind consumed which no professional caught up in his or her own domain would have had the time for.
I ONLY HAVE ONE DREAM, to be able to give a lecture in a very simplistic way, which would have to span over a few days to explain it all, while I still can.
And it's simple, all we have to first understand is a triangle of the True Nature of Time Space and Energy interlaced with a triangle representing the Present Past and Future.
Without first understanding this scientists might never be able to solve even the most mundane questions.
What you describe going on in your mind sounds like daydreaming without pictures to me. Sounds like you can imagine going through steps to make things better and how that would end up. That process feels alien to me.
Like your triangles. I just recently started playing around generating images with AI to represent a concept similar to your first one. Now I will have to go to work making the second one then finding a way to combine them.
Always on...this is a phrase I bet a lot of us Aphants can relate to.
You sound a lot like me only a few years older and more intense :-) I also digest a wide variety of material non consciousness and spirituality. Lately exploring quantum relevance to spirit and science. If find me in LinkedIn or email me at james@goldenratiorecruiting.com I can send you a couple things.
I am pretty sure we are on the verge of having the answer to some big questions. I am less sure many (enough)people are ready to understand and embrace them
Hey Joel, did you mean to say those of us who can't daydream aren't human? That would explain a few things lol.
Fantastic explanation of how daydreaming works that got me thinking about the implications that lack of daydreaming would have on the psychological development of kids.
When I first told a close friend I had Aphantasia the first thing she said was "lucky you, no daydreams to distract you"
The inability to visualize future or alternate scenarios definitely feels like something that has had an impact on my way of being and how I think about the future. It feels like one of the reasons I learned to be an excellent problem solver and quickly adapt to new environments. Everything is a new "problem" all the time when you live in the moment, don't remember much and can't imagine what's coming.
How's that for meandering?
Thanks so much for this article Joel. I have multisensory aphantasia and SDAM, and I don't have the types of daydreaming experiences you describe. I do sometimes get lost in a train of deep thought, but my experience is always very much grounded in the here and now. Is there any research on the default mode network in people with aphantasia?
Also, I'm genuinely fascinating to read about how much time people can spend daydreaming. While it might be nice to escape to another imaginary world, I often wonder how visualisers concentrate or get anything done!
That opening description of a daydream is 100% alien to me. Aphantasia, SDAM, inattentive ADHD, yes, daydreaming like that no. Here is me describing what passes for a daydream to me:
On a beautiful afternoon we were sitting in our dusty classroom, parsing and translating Latin prose, the windows all wide open, while out in the world birdsong threaded thin and distant in the drifting African air.
Goodwin was in the hot seat.
“In is sibi legationem ad civitates suscepit,” he said, “is sibi refers to the verb suscepit, making it reflexive, taking to himself the authority, so I think the translation might be ‘he undertook to be ambassador to the states’, sir.”
“Thank you Goodwin, very good,” said Mr Slade, unless it was some other master. “Sharman?”
There was no reply. I was thinking how amazingly and unnaturally lavender the jacaranda flowers looked on the trees just outside the window, and how they layered the thin kikuyu grass on the bank of Brooklands with such an improbable glowing carpet.
“Sharman, are we disturbing you?”
“Oh, sorry, sir, yes, sir?”
“Glad to have you back with us, Sharman. Continue.”
“… um, sorry, sir, where are we, sir?”
“Please pay attention, Sharman, the rest of us are back here on Earth exploring the writings of Caesar. Goodwin has just translated is sibi legationem ad civitates suscepit, please go on.”
“… er… um… sorry, sir, which line is that on, sir, please?”
“Line 13, Sharman, and please stop saying sorry, because although you are indeed a sorry specimen, I do not for one minute think you are sorry. So stop saying sorry, you scatterbrained dunce.”
A lesser master would have hurled something at my head, but Mr Slade (if it were he) was a remarkably civil and patient man.
“Thank you, sir, line 13, sir. Yes sir. … um.”
Mr Slade and the class waited, breath bated. They knew what was coming.
There was no way out for the squirrels in my head. But the squirrels and I could perhaps collectively stall for time.
“Please, sir, which page, sir? Sorry, sir.”
A sigh from the class, a collective letting out of breath. Sharman was in for it now.
“Sharman, you are exasperating. Come and see me after class. Page 8, boy. Page 8. Line 13. Is sibi legationem ad civitates suscepit. Continue.”
“…”
“… excuse me, sir, may I borrow the book, please sir, I think I must have forgotten mine, sir.”
In this, in case you missed it, my "daydream" was my musing about Jacaranda flowers.
Daydreaming? I can't even begin to imagine what it's like. I have "hyper" Aphantasia. However, I'm always busy thinking about things rationally. The rights and wrongs and ways to fix it.
When I watch SpaceX for example and their innovative ideas my mind would automatically start to think how to even better it and so forth. The problem is that I can never switch of from thinking, my mind is at it like forever.
Even when it's time to go to sleep my minds busy figuring things out, anything and everything.
I can however direct my thoughts onto a specific subject and then get stuck on that specific thought. I'm also always busy doing something like mowing the lawn or fixing something trying to think about something else when a specific train of thought becomes too overwhelming trying to drive me crazy.
I just woke up at 5 am, read this article and already my minds at it. I'm turning 69 in 2 weeks and cannot imagine what it must feel like to be empty minded.
The last 35 to 40 years most of my thoughts were directed at trying to solve the unsolved mysteries of the human mind.
I've watched thousands of videos of famous scientists, philosophers, neurologists, psychologists and so forth over all these years. Not even to mention how much more time my mind has been at work trying to make sense of it all, trying to solve the puzzle.
Believe me when I say I eventually did solve it as an outside observer. What saddens or puzzles me the most is seeing how so many professionals have solved or rather holds only bits and pieces of the puzzle, most even unaware of the other pieces out there that exists.
When I say I finally figured out how our minds operate I mean it. Not only that, even how the universe operates. That's what my minds been at for the last 35 to 40 years gradually figuring it out, day in and day out. The amazing thing is over the years I saw how discoveries and new breakthroughs has been made only to confirm what I already knew years and sometimes even decades ahead. That's a lot of time my mind consumed which no professional caught up in his or her own domain would have had the time for.
I ONLY HAVE ONE DREAM, to be able to give a lecture in a very simplistic way, which would have to span over a few days to explain it all, while I still can.
And it's simple, all we have to first understand is a triangle of the True Nature of Time Space and Energy interlaced with a triangle representing the Present Past and Future.
Without first understanding this scientists might never be able to solve even the most mundane questions.
What you describe going on in your mind sounds like daydreaming without pictures to me. Sounds like you can imagine going through steps to make things better and how that would end up. That process feels alien to me.
Like your triangles. I just recently started playing around generating images with AI to represent a concept similar to your first one. Now I will have to go to work making the second one then finding a way to combine them.
Always on...this is a phrase I bet a lot of us Aphants can relate to.
Tell me about your concept, your goal and maybe I can help you out, my theory finally came full circle.
You sound a lot like me only a few years older and more intense :-) I also digest a wide variety of material non consciousness and spirituality. Lately exploring quantum relevance to spirit and science. If find me in LinkedIn or email me at james@goldenratiorecruiting.com I can send you a couple things.
I am pretty sure we are on the verge of having the answer to some big questions. I am less sure many (enough)people are ready to understand and embrace them